Posts by jonathan dough

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

jonathan dough

I think something that has been sorely overlooked on this topic is "examining the scriptures" to see if Jesus was or is God is the historical accuracy of scripture, the evolution of scripture, the qualifications of scripture, the contradiction or harmony of scripture. For surely these also need to be examined if we are going to be thoroughly examining scripture.

The thread is addressed primarily toward those individuals who believe Scripture is God's word, particularly JWs who have no problem with that. I'm not sure why anyone else would be interested in examining those verses.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

jonathan dough

by force they, the Trinitarian churches, put other followers of Jesus to death as heretics for having ideas different from theirs.

I tend to keep the theory separate from what bad people do. No justification for that.But that's a different topic.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

jonathan dough

Casting aside what little you learned about God and Christ

Educate yourself.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

jonathan dough

Casting aside what little you learned about God and Christ- are you thrilled with the future of Mankind?

Who are you addressing this to? Catholics? Protestants? ex-jws?

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

jonathan dough

I would be surprised if they typically could grasp and accept even the simplest form of the Trinity's complex Godhead.

They might bnot have grasped it in all of its complexity, but they accepted it as they accept it today.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

28

New CO 70 yrs old, "youre not doing enough" school. Sigh

by monkeyman in

got our new co. old school guy, 70 yrs old.

mo is "youre all not doing enough".

sigh.. three yrs of this asshole..

jonathan dough

BILLY: Just let him know that when you get a free car from Watchtower Corp. (like the CO) and reimbursement from Brooklyn (like the CO) AND from the local congregation (like the CO) AND from the circuit (like the CO) for ALL your expenses, AND free housing, then you will be able to do a lot more!

Ask him if he's available to work in service for a long day MONDAY!

What, you get Monday off to do personal things? Wow, I have to work Mondays then come home and do personal things.

Okay, how about Tuesday morning?

Oh, you get Tuesday morning off, too, in order to get ready for the meeting at the congregation? Wow, I had to work Tuesday and get studied for the meeting on Monday night during my personal time, because I wouldn't have time to study once I get home from work, eat, and get dressed.

Jeez, COs have it a lot easier than Bethelites.

Just tell the old fart that if I'm not doing enough, he can do it himself.

--------------------------------------------------------

"Woe to you, scholars of the law! You impose on people burdens to carry, but you yourselves do not lift one finger to touch them." Luke 11:46

http://www.144000.110mb.com/

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

jonathan dough

The theologians you have been quoting.

On whether Jesus is God or not the original point was simple- everything that is said of Jesus as the Word being God by a Trinitarian argument would by logic apply to everything else. Bishop Arius, Newton, the early Jewish christian communities had other solutions for the Word which in philosophical and metaphysical terms carry as much weight as any other theology.

Depends on what they are saying because the Church gave weight more to some than to others. From the church's point of view I just don't see Trinitarian logic as you interpret it as overturning their conviction that Jesus was, and is, God, not to mention the many proof texts they rely on. Theologians like you and others like you might want to stretch it that far, but it's forcing a square peg in a round hole, and forces a theory on the church which they resoundly reject.

everything that is said of Jesus as the Word being God by a Trinitarian argument would by logic apply to everything else

Everything? I don't think so.

At this point I think we're beating a dead horse. I'm gonna go watch the Saints lose.

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

jonathan dough

Jonath,

So what do you understand the phrase "to know god" to mean?

I know it is off topic but related just the same to our discussion.

I don't know.

But I know what it does not mean. It doesn't mean sitting around like a robot reading the Watchtower and other literature, memorizing it and spitting it back.

204

Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough in

i'll start with john 14:8-10. .

scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.

the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.

jonathan dough

What the theologian is trying to argue ...

Which theologian? And how does this prove that Jesus was/is NOT God?

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#trinity-home

43

Question regarding Holy Spirit...

by tenyearsafter in

i am still muddling my way through both sides of the trinity argument, but i would be very interested in hearing the explanation for the nontrinitarian view of the holy spirit and what it is in light of ephesians 4:29-32 where it speaks about "grieving the holy spirit".

if the holy spirit is just god's active force, as we were taught as jw's, how can we grieve it?

grieving would indicate a personality or feelings that could be "grieved".

jonathan dough

ne of the first things I began to realize about the the teachings of the WT was that they made "accurate knowledge" a matter of salvation.

The JWs misquote John 17:3 and use that to cram their literature down your throats and scare you into filling their seats. John didn't write "take in accurate knowledge" but that salvation means to know God in the literal translations. And there are many ways to know God without being a "Bible scholar." Abraham did just fine knowing God without the Watchtower. And even if the JWs were right about John 17:3, using their literature to infuse the flock with accurate knowledge begs the question: is their drivel accurate knowledge? Of course one could argue one wouldn't need the Bible at all to know God, and for some that might be true, those who have not had the opportunity, but for those who have, that would be stretching it.

This is off topic.